Don't bother to read this

[k gledhill]

Eyes wide open, but what do you see? In this case, your mind did not follow. Where is my reference to "redirecting" as you've stated?

WC is more than three dimensional, an concept many had not fully understand, the rotation which WC1277 talk about had little to do in the sense of your definition of redirection. I think it's more like spinning the arms of the turnstile, if you don't get out the way, due to the rotation, the next set of arm will smack you.

Ah thanks for clearing up his intentions ; )

[WC1277]

Really? You're serious? Not only are those viable Wing Chun options taught in the dummy form, they are also options you see in just about any fighting method that features a clinch-like contact. Ever watch a UFC fight? You see these things all the time. One guy will overwhelm the other, one guy will rotate out of the clinch, or one guy will manage to step back and proceed with striking.

Good example

[LaRoux]

That is not fighting or sparring.

Not only that, they are done by a guy who doesn't fight or spar.

[k gledhill]

Really? You're serious? Not only are those viable Wing Chun options taught in the dummy form, they are also options you see in just about any fighting method that features a clinch-like contact. Ever watch a UFC fight? You see these things all the time. One guy will overwhelm the other, one guy will rotate out of the clinch, or one guy will manage to step back and proceed with striking.

Maybe in your dummy and clinching dhi sao.

[tc101]

btw just about every major successful fighting art uses rotation of some kind. Regardless of whether you obtain your beloved video or not, is it too far a stretch for you to understand the correlation?

No one is saying that there is no rotation at all in wing chun. However different people have different ideas of how to use it. My perspective is most of these views are arm chair musings of this is what I think I would do based on my forms and drills and not let me explain what I do in sparring fighting and how it works for me. So I ask for a video to see if I am wrong. I see that I wasn't wrong.

It's funny when two people argue about how things will really work in fighting and neither person is basing their view on their experience fighting.

Please continue explaining how you really know how things work.

[roache]

WC1277 To be clear I AM advocating moving the feet with every strike. Just not in a windshield wiper fashion. More stepping and bracing.

I also want to be clear that rotation is not the only way to generate force and it is not the only way to "hammer the nail". (although it is clear you seem to feel rotation is the "best" way(?)). The other way is simply stepping and forward step slide. If this is not immediately obvious please try the exercise below, and if that doesn't work ask sifu to explain it.

Even though I don't really want to be insulting, this painfully simple exercise will come across that way, but I guess I feel the need to be blunt. But, you have thick skin, so I think we'll still be good.

For this exercise I want you to stand in your favorite room. Now, without rotation, twisting or bracing walk straight into the wall. It may take a few times to convince yourself that it can involve the whole body and really "hammer that nail". And it may take a few more times before it feels "natural". But isn't that king fu training? there are no free rides. If it still feels like this action would lead to a kinder, gentler chi sau, try it faster and allow no hesitation in your intent.

The application for when there is no arm contact is a "balanced" response to an opponent when you F up. ......... To know if one is truly doing it balanced without contact, one must "test" it with contact.

I want to understand what you are saying, but I don't. Hopefully we can share ideas face to face in the future. Maybe sifu can help us both out.

And yes, I do the morning classes, because in the evenings my primary responsibility is as a family man. But I do make it to the end of the month seminars, May seminars and when my family is out of town I try to make it to all the classes (I was there last month).

We can be done here.

Peace,
-e

[GlennR]

For this exercise I want you to stand in your favorite room. Now, without rotation, twisting or bracing walk straight into the wall. It may take a few times to convince yourself that it can involve the whole body and really "hammer that nail". And it may take a few more times before it feels "natural". But isn't that king fu training? there are no free rides. If it still feels like this action would lead to a kinder, gentler chi sau, try it faster and allow no hesitation in your intent.

And make sure you post a video of that!

[WC1277]

WC1277 To be clear I AM advocating moving the feet with every strike. Just not in a windshield wiper fashion. More stepping and bracing.

I also want to be clear that rotation is not the only way to generate force and it is not the only way to "hammer the nail". (although it is clear you seem to feel rotation is the "best" way(?)). The other way is simply stepping and forward step slide. If this is not immediately obvious please try the exercise below, and if that doesn't work ask sifu to explain it.

Even though I don't really want to be insulting, this painfully simple exercise will come across that way, but I guess I feel the need to be blunt. But, you have thick skin, so I think we'll still be good.

For this exercise I want you to stand in your favorite room. Now, without rotation, twisting or bracing walk straight into the wall. It may take a few times to convince yourself that it can involve the whole body and really "hammer that nail". And it may take a few more times before it feels "natural". But isn't that king fu training? there are no free rides. If it still feels like this action would lead to a kinder, gentler chi sau, try it faster and allow no hesitation in your intent.





I want to understand what you are saying, but I don't. Hopefully we can share ideas face to face in the future. Maybe sifu can help us both out.

And yes, I do the morning classes, because in the evenings my primary responsibility is as a family man. But I do make it to the end of the month seminars, May seminars and when my family is out of town I try to make it to all the classes (I was there last month).

We can be done here.

Peace,
-e

Wow!

You're right. We are done here.

[WC1277]

It's funny when two people argue about how things will really work in fighting and neither person is basing their view on their experience fighting.

Please continue explaining how you really know how things work.

Not only that, they are done by a guy who doesn't fight or spar.

How would either one of you know that?

for the record, I've done both

[WC1277]

WC1277 To be clear I AM advocating moving the feet with every strike. Just not in a windshield wiper fashion. More stepping and bracing.

I also want to be clear that rotation is not the only way to generate force and it is not the only way to "hammer the nail". (although it is clear you seem to feel rotation is the "best" way(?)). The other way is simply stepping and forward step slide. If this is not immediately obvious please try the exercise below, and if that doesn't work ask sifu to explain it.

Even though I don't really want to be insulting, this painfully simple exercise will come across that way, but I guess I feel the need to be blunt. But, you have thick skin, so I think we'll still be good.

For this exercise I want you to stand in your favorite room. Now, without rotation, twisting or bracing walk straight into the wall. It may take a few times to convince yourself that it can involve the whole body and really "hammer that nail". And it may take a few more times before it feels "natural". But isn't that king fu training? there are no free rides. If it still feels like this action would lead to a kinder, gentler chi sau, try it faster and allow no hesitation in your intent.





I want to understand what you are saying, but I don't. Hopefully we can share ideas face to face in the future. Maybe sifu can help us both out.

And yes, I do the morning classes, because in the evenings my primary responsibility is as a family man. But I do make it to the end of the month seminars, May seminars and when my family is out of town I try to make it to all the classes (I was there last month).

We can be done here.

Peace,
-e

btw Emmett, you're not my Sihing, just so you know...

[LaRoux]

How would either one of you know that?

Because the guy who is demonstrating in the video thinks he would land fatal blows to his opponent's chest and kill him. People who actually fight and spar full contact know this not to be the case.

[WC1277]

Because the guy who is demonstrating in the video thinks he would land fatal blows to his opponent's chest and kill him. People who actually fight and spar full contact know this not to be the case.

My apologies then. You must be referring to the video Hendrik posted.

[guy b.]

TC101, whatever you and wtxs are on about, I don't really care. But ffs man, if you don't like "analysis talk", so to speak, then it's simple. Don't participate. Most guys on this forum have a good enough understanding of basic ideas to at least discuss certain functions, concepts, principles, etc. Even if there's disagreement. You're constantly on about "show me the video". Everyone should just start referring to you as "Cuba"! How bout for once, you show us a video? Just paste a link of any clip YOU find acceptable. Then, at least, you have a position to stand on in this forum. Because right now you just sound like an overbearing conservative shouting NO by reflex.

Lol, exactly

[tc101]

How would either one of you know that?

for the record, I've done both

Sure sure yes anyone can say that just like people can claim anything. I know better because people with lots of canned ideas and theory like yourself never put on gear and bang. If they ever do they quickly realize most of their ideas do not work like they think they should and they also see that people with different ideas or ways of doing things are beating them like a rented mule. So they learn that there are many different ways of doing things and what matters is how well you can perform what you do not how your idea is better than the other guy.

[tc101]

TC101, whatever you and wtxs are on about, I don't really care. But ffs man, if you don't like "analysis talk", so to speak, then it's simple. Don't participate. Most guys on this forum have a good enough understanding of basic ideas to at least discuss certain functions, concepts, principles, etc. Even if there's disagreement. You're constantly on about "show me the video". Everyone should just start referring to you as "Cuba"! How bout for once, you show us a video? Just paste a link of any clip YOU find acceptable. Then, at least, you have a position to stand on in this forum. Because right now you just sound like an overbearing conservative shouting NO by reflex.

Here is the thing I am not trying like you are to tell people there is a so called right way to do things. Since you are saying you know how things should be done I am asking you to show us you can do them. Same with Hendrik the poster boy for arm chair wing chun.

Yes yes everyone has a foundation in the ideas but guess what? We do not fight with ideas we fight with actions. If you want to say that you do this or that in training that is cool but when you start talking about having an understanding of how things work in fighting that begs the question what do you know about fighting?

There are two kinds of analysis talk. How do you deal with a boxer? The first kind has people who have put in the time sparring with boxers telling what worked for them, what did not work for them, what their observations were, what to look out for, and so forth. This is the view of experience. The second kind has people who have not done that and are not doing that telling us how they think it should be done with principles and concepts and physics lol. This is the view from the arm chair.

You are right about one thing my reflex is to not believe the arm chair guys because I know from experience they do not know what they are talking about when they start talking about anything beyond forms and drills since that is all they do.