ermei snake oil salesman

[deejaye72]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcT3_2sEaAE

please stop, i cant take it! hahahaha

[zuti car]

I would understand if he actually earns some money from all of this , buy looks like he really believes in his story and that is just sad .

[Firehawk4]

Wing Chun begins with Siu Lin Tao (Small/Little Ideas or Training). One of the Emei 12 Zhuang sets is called Siu Zhuang (Small/Little Ways). The first section of the Siu Lin Tao set (also found and further expanded on in the first section of the Biu Jee set) contains this same training concept for the hands/fingers as done in the Emei Mountain neigong sets. In the Cho family lienage, this section is called Snake Sliding Cocoon, in the Yuen Kay-San lineage it was originally called Sae Ying Sao (Snake Shape hand), and in the Fung family, Sae Mun Bai Jee (Four Direction Swaying Fingers). Many arts have this sort of training but what makes Wing Chun’s process different from that of other Fujian arts like Southern Mantis is the “Rou”(soft)-style Snake Binding property.

Emei also has the Tracing the Taiji Circle movement. In the same manner, in the Wing Chun lineages of Fung, Cho, Yuen and others, there is a common Sao Kuen/Sik (Fist or Section Closing Sequence), often referred to as Lop Sao, which is also popular in most southern martial art traditions. Wing Chun calls it the Taiji Circle, which is “O”-shape and an older, symbolic term for the line the fingers follow when performing the action. Another aspect of Emei is the Inch Silk Worm Finger, which functions like Wing Chun’s Darting Finger method. The actual Darting Finger motion itself is common to numerous Southern Fist traditions, and is even called by the same name in arts such as Southern Mantis.

Finally, Emei’s Tiger Walking sets have a first section called 8 Methods Under the Foot, which is similar to Wing Chun’s 8 leg methods or 8 kicks. Wing Chun masters have said it is composed of 12 Ways and 8 Methods, same description that Emei uses as well. Perhaps this Emei Snake was fused with the Fukien White Crane of Fang Chi Niang’s Five Plum footwork to create the Siu Lin Tao? Siu Lin Tao and its Yee Jee Kim Yeung Ma are different and distinct from other Fukien arts. Instead, other Fukien arts and offshoots preserve the San Chin (3 battles)/ Su Men (4 gates) root (which is seen in the Hakka martial arts that were influenced by Tai Tzu Quan).

[Firehawk4]

https://www.google.com/#q=video++of+++emei+12+zhuang

[Hendrik]

What is the point to take Jim Rosalendo article and ask?

Wing Chun begins with Siu Lin Tao (Small/Little Ideas or Training). One of the Emei 12 Zhuang sets is called Siu Zhuang (Small/Little Ways). The first section of the Siu Lin Tao set (also found and further expanded on in the first section of the Biu Jee set) contains this same training concept for the hands/fingers as done in the Emei Mountain neigong sets. In the Cho family lienage, this section is called Snake Sliding Cocoon, in the Yuen Kay-San lineage it was originally called Sae Ying Sao (Snake Shape hand), and in the Fung family, Sae Mun Bai Jee (Four Direction Swaying Fingers). Many arts have this sort of training but what makes Wing Chun’s process different from that of other Fujian arts like Southern Mantis is the “Rou”(soft)-style Snake Binding property.

Emei also has the Tracing the Taiji Circle movement. In the same manner, in the Wing Chun lineages of Fung, Cho, Yuen and others, there is a common Sao Kuen/Sik (Fist or Section Closing Sequence), often referred to as Lop Sao, which is also popular in most southern martial art traditions. Wing Chun calls it the Taiji Circle, which is “O”-shape and an older, symbolic term for the line the fingers follow when performing the action. Another aspect of Emei is the Inch Silk Worm Finger, which functions like Wing Chun’s Darting Finger method. The actual Darting Finger motion itself is common to numerous Southern Fist traditions, and is even called by the same name in arts such as Southern Mantis.

Finally, Emei’s Tiger Walking sets have a first section called 8 Methods Under the Foot, which is similar to Wing Chun’s 8 leg methods or 8 kicks. Wing Chun masters have said it is composed of 12 Ways and 8 Methods, same description that Emei uses as well. Perhaps this Emei Snake was fused with the Fukien White Crane of Fang Chi Niang’s Five Plum footwork to create the Siu Lin Tao? Siu Lin Tao and its Yee Jee Kim Yeung Ma are different and distinct from other Fukien arts. Instead, other Fukien arts and offshoots preserve the San Chin (3 battles)/ Su Men (4 gates) root (which is seen in the Hakka martial arts that were influenced by Tai Tzu Quan).

[Firehawk4]

I didnt know Jim Roselando wrote it . http://www.bgtent.com/naturalcma/CMAarticle14.htm

[Jim Roselando]

Emei Snake is certainly different from Taiji. A quote from GM Foo Wei Zhong on his special art and lineage:

"Snake Moving & Worm Crawling is the basic art of Emei Qigong!"

(GM Foo: Page 49-Emei 18 Methods Book)

If anyone is interested in Emei 12 Zhuang contact me! I am holding a private seminar with the headmaster of the Emei tradition on May 10th & 11th. The seminar is sold out but I might be able to squeeze in a few more if someone is truly interested...

Emei IS NOT Taiji!

Here is an example of me comparing Wing Chun's Snake mechanics to Yiquan, Taiji etc. It's different!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5SVdSR9_vs

[deejaye72]

okay it's different but it looks exactly the same. ok lets agree to diagree. it is a similar martial art, so similar that someone practicing another internal art recognizes basic drills, that he performs his own internal martial arts. nothing special. its an internal martial art!!
ok lets see ex: like a judo man working out with a sambo man., so similar they can work out toghter without going into extreme detail with each other. thats what i'm saying to be diplomatic. i still dont believe that a-hole, because anyone who really had something would not bad mouth someone he never met.

[Hendrik]

Hendrik & Jim,

Thanks for the direction. I will do my best to look into it. Jim please let me know the next time that one of these seminars are available, I can't make the one in May.

I am very interested in these 12 Zhuang so please do not take this the wrong way. People are skeptical because of the limited information and secrecy and are not willing to just take someones word for it. Personally I would like to experience and examine these exercises before I come to any conclusion, I'm sure others feel the same.

Firehawk posted some commentary alongside of Jim's writing. I know that this has been brought up before and debated, but I'm going to throw it out again. Setting the concept of "engine" aside, lets examine Sanzhan vs. Xiao Lian Tou. If one puts any stock into the old legends, it's been stated by many elders, that Bai He Quan was originally a system of Sanshi and that Sanzhan was originally a Zhan Zhuang practice and that the footwork and forms were a later development. If one examines the hand movements of each set they will see that there is more commonality than not. In Yonchun Bai He Quan's form of Qibu Sanzhan Quan the techniques presented up until the double hacking elbows are the exact same sequence as the 11 Hands section of Xiao Lian Tou found after the double crane wings, curious don't you think. As I've noted before there are other lineages that have a moving Xiao Lian Tou and it follows a model much closer to Sanzhan than anything else. This is in no way to refute that these 12 Zhuang were not infused within the Cho family system, but to make the statement that it was originally part of the greater system from the beginning may be a stretch. People want tangible proof to form their own opinions. Skeptics like a public format as compared to closed doors and secrecy. When it comes to making accusations and claims of proof Skeptics want not only an open door policy for questioning but also evidence in the way of examination, explanation and guidance. Some of this has been demonstrated but in order for it to be accepted it has to be correlated and confirmed by other parties that are privy to the information.

Hendrik, those clips that you posted from Youku on the other thread aren't working. They keep rerouting me, I'll try searching YouKu for examples.

Jim, since you have experience with these exercises and Fu Wei Zhong, would you be willing to post a clip or two? Could be privately if you are worried about the reaction.

1. A brief snap short here is you cannot view the above link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glBD...=youtube_gdata


2. IMHO, If one keep thinking taiji is everything on and doesn't see what infront of one s eyes then no one can help.
I brought up emei so that more information will come to the west. Otherwise, wcners will get stuck to not having this part of information.


3. If one keep want to accuse me on things got nothing to do with me , that is their freedom


4. Seriously, I don't even care if anyone take it or leave it. I make my SNT works and many like Jim has turn on their SNT engine . It is as simple as that. Even the fujian white crane engine alone is not fit SNT well, it is simply too coarse in handling .

One simply needs an indepth level of tcma to know, paper proof or mind speculation can get there. One needs to be able to read seven bows and six core elements signatures. Without that level of attainment, one simply don't know the different but superficial postures mimicking.

No one can replace a 1000 hours of training development with a mind speculation .


5. Forget about taiji, it got nothing to do with Wck, one wants to fully turn on the engine of SNT, one must use emei snake engine. Like it or not that is what it is . Anyone can cast it in stone. And let the future generation proof it.


6. I have never turn down those who is skeptic, from decade ago

I invit Jim to visit me, Kung fu fighter visit me, to many many others sifus from different Wck lineages around the world.

Ask Jim why is he walked in this emei direction ? Ask Kung fu fighter what has he experience, or even you can read WCL sifu Robert Chu article on the same issue in the recent two issues of WCI. Do you think all these wcners don't know what they talk about? Do you think Sifu Robert Chu who is the founder of CSLWCK will lie for me? Do you think Jim who is the close student of PSWCK china will made up things for me?

However, I can't help those who keep thinking their taiji is the ultimate without even know what I am talking about. And keep trying to accuse me with anything got zero to do with me . Just because his taiji ultimate fantasy is broken.
Or those who is asking for carbon test on "bible " instead of learn how to pray and experience what and how prayer is.

[deejaye72]

i figured out where hendriks tai chi, internal martial connection is from.

[Hendrik]

Jim & Hendrik,

I just watched a clip on the "Ermei Small Character" form. From what I witnessed I seen nothing unique and any connection to Wing Chun as a whole, IMO, is tenuous at best. What I seen was nothing short of Nei Gong (Internal Skills) exercise based upon Small and Large Circulation. These principles and techniques are found in many Qigong systems and are not unique to Ermei. These same movements and concepts can be found in Tibetan White Crane Sect's version of Small 5 Patterns Fist, Zhineng Qigong, Yang Shi Taijiquan, Soaring Crane Qigong and in Fujian versions of Sanzhan Quan just to name a few. What I seen was closer mechanically to Fujian Crane methods such as Calling Crane Fist than Wing Chun. Any link is very interpretative IMO. This link lends itself to the same argument in Alan Orr's thread, now I'm not going to tell you that Ermei Shier Zhuang is not present in your Wing Chun if that is what you believe, but I don't see it. "Bio-mechanically" speaking, I think that methods such as Hongjia 5 Pattern Fist, Tibetan White Crane's Small 5 Pattern Fist & Yongchun White Crane's Sanzhan variations along with their "Gong" methods are conceptually and mechanically closer in dynamics to Xiao Lian Tou than Ermei Shier Zhuang. This to me makes more sense logically as these arts have a common ancestry. This is not to say that there weren't some elements present just not enough in my book to say a direct link is evident, irregardless of what any literature says. I cannot support the claim that this is the "Engine" of Wing Chun. The movements presented do not have the same properties as those found in Wing Chun IMO, two completely different purposes of use. One is a band-aid the other a knife, complete opposites. This doesn't mean that they are not compatible if you are looking to make your Wing Chun a health and religious practice, but you have to ask yourself is that the original intention and purpose of Wing Chun and it's concepts?

1. You are free to think as you like.



2. Technically , in fact, you don't see it because you don't read seven bows and six core elements signatures.
Wck high speed acceleration short Jin is develop by emei 12 zhuang snake slide technology. Not other art.




3. Not to mention, yik kam SLT is a solid data point of Wck 1848 .



4. If it is this simple, Jim who has different internal art background would not spend decade in develop it. Sifu Robert Chu will not write about it . Kungfu fighter will not talking to me after visiting me.

Not to mention Wck SNT is practically dead today, in past sixty years many wcners are borrowing other art trying to make it alive without success.


5. It is ok for others to have their own view. That is normal.

[pazman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lv5uJTdn6I

[JPinAZ]

Yeah, I don't think you can blame Hendrik for what Sergio does. I didn't hear Sergio say anything about Emei Snake at all. But I agree with you that most of what Sergio is showing on that video is just leverage tricks.

While I'd rather not get involved with Hendrik's nonsense, Sergio actually did give credit back to Hendrik in one of his other videos, and also in his comments on FB & YT.

Now, While he doesn't mention Hendrik directly, here's his comments on Wing Chun Forum on FB regarding this same video that was poster there where he does talk about both Hendrik's WC=Emei Snake+Crane nonsense:

Sifu Sergio - The drills iam doing are from white crane a wing chun ancestor together with Emei,and moreover the yielding and seven bows technology can be found in the wing chun from before 1854 yik Kam Wing chun for example. Robert Chu's Wing Chun is very advanced in using Force flow Through the 7 bows too in fact he was one of the sifu's teaching about this already decades ago.

So, it looks like even Sergio has gotten enough sense to distance himself from Hendrik a little, but he's still crediting back to his (and Robert's) teaching & quoting Hendrik almost word for word.

[deejaye72]

Robert Chu's Wing Chun is very advanced in using Force flow Through the 7 bows too in fact he was one of the sifu's teaching about this already decades ago.

I studied with many teachers in New York Chinatown, and wanted to explore the Chinese martial arts as extensively as I could. I thought all systems had their good and bad points, and I thought to cross train and improve myself with the various systems. Also, as young man, I was also seeking for a system that suited me best personally, and I wanted to sample what I could. NY Chinatown had all systems - 7 star praying mantis, white crane, Lion Fist, Hung Ga, Bak Mei, Lung Ying Mor Kiu, Hung Fut, Northern Shaolin and many other systems. Some masters in Chinatown were masters of legitimate systems, some masters just made things up.- robert chu

my father and i are both from new york. my father studied many systems in new york chinatown in the 70's...what a strange coincidence. i can go on and get into detail. its not worth it.

[pazman]

Hey guys.