Wude: Anywhere to be found?

[David Jamieson]

if you are a sheep, you are a sheep.

if you are a wolf, you are a wolf

guess what they both flock or gather together as a group

such as sheep herd

and wolf pack

--

there is wu de among sheep herds

there is wu de among wolf pack

--

guess what there is no wude between the sheep and wolf

one is prey; the other is predator

one is food; the other is eater

--

one may ask and wonder

where is the wu de for sheep and wolf

--

none.

---

However, wolf and sheep both are incapable of abstract thought and exist with primordial awareness only.

wude is for humans only. we are all humans.
some may act like wolves and others may act like sheep, but they are all human and they all have potential to behave like one o the other and STILL possess wude towards each other.

[SPJ]

post away what you like to share

stop wasting time to preach to wolf how not to eat a sheep.

--

wolf is only interested in how to kill and how to eat

--

actually there is wu de sort of

kill only what you eat

b/c kill too many no food tommorrow

there is eco balance

--

again wu de is among something similar or equal power

--

there is a different dependent balance if one is weak, the other is strong.

---

1 so where is wu de?

when you are strong and in dealing with the weak

2 when you are weak; may you ask for wu de from the strong?

probably not

--

[bawang]

the subject of wude in america has the taint of japanese budo.

japanese separate combat and spiritual health aspects into bujutsu and budo. so when people hear about martial morality they think its some sort of "spiritual path".


chinese martial art do not separate personal spiritual journey and war. war is the path to enlightenment.


wu de is a set of beliefs and codes that try to justify war. martial morality = morality in killing

[SPJ]

I personally more like characters development or cultivation

when you practice your MA

there are so certain things you would uphold or follow

1. you do not fight when some one is hurt or drunk

spirit of fairness

2. you help the weak, the sick and the needed

spirit of benevolence

3. you fight or help when your kung fu brothers/classmates in trouble or in need

spirit of compatriots

4. you stand by the weaker but in the right

spirit of justice

on and on

wu de is not about preaching to stranger and asking them to behave

wu de is about what you would do or wound not do when you is you

and you practicing the principles along with your MA

---

unless of course

you are the father or the teacher

and you ask your kids and students to behave

---

[bawang]

wu de is a series of beliefs and practices that dehumanize the enemy.

just like most other aspects of chinese martial arts, wu de does not fit into modern society. its alien and terrifying and unknowable to the white man.

[SPJ]

yes.

1 rule of the jungle

the weak got eaten, the strong gets to eat: ruo rou qiang shi 弱肉强食

2 rule of darwin ism

the survival of the fittest

--

[YouKnowWho]

YouKnowWho, Why are you still here if this is the case and truth of this forum and how can this forum truly be representative of the Chinese Martial Arts if Wude is absent, neglected or not evident at all?

We can all try to help to bring the Wude back here. If we start to do that within ourselves, we may influence others. After all this forum may be the only TCMA forum that's still interest in "combat" and not just "tuck the tail bone".

The day that we find out this forum is "hopeless - beyond repair", the day that we should all leave and never come back.

Here are my suggestions:

- Try not to convert a christian into a muslim (or the other way around).
- Try not to be the person with the last words.
- Try not to use "YOU" and "I" in the discussion (use general WE or general YOU instead).
- Try not to use words such as "retard", "crueless", "loser", ....
- Accept other's different opinions and move on.
- Something work for you may not work for others (or the other way around).
- There is no black and white but different degree of grey.
- Internet discussion is not fighting, tiger spirit has no place here.
- ...

Is that too much to ask for?

[wenshu]

I think a lot of people erroneously conflate wu de with etiquette. Etiquette is ostensibly a part of it; the idea that you can judge someone's character by their outward behavior. What a simplistically naive worldview; a horrible person is not in any way incapable of acting polite and virtuous nor is a virtuous person incapable of acting like a complete jackass.

It is patently ridiculous to try and apply a several centuries old code of ethics onto internet banter and name calling. A code of ethics with an obtuse history and cultural background. We should not be looking to impose personal behavioral values onto others, rather pay attention to why it is we should take such trivialities personally. An inflated, inflexible, brittle ego is in need of constant defending and always sees attackers on all sides.

bawang is on the right track by attempting to bring the discussion to the cultural background out of which codified warrior ethics originated. Outwardly wu de is passed down as Confucian ethics, but at it's core is Chinese Legalism. 儒表法裡
It is really a way to control a potentially dangerous population. Unarmed modern Martial Arts practitioners aren't really all that dangerous to society. Martial arts practitioners armed with the internet? Well that's only dangerous to your ego.

[YouKnowWho]

The word "Wude" may have different meaning to different people. To me "Wude" is:

- One should not bad mouth his teacher and his ancestor.
- One should not disrespect ancient TCMA masters.
- One should not pretend something who he is not.
- One should not try to cause trouble.
- We shoul be loyality to our country, honest to our friends, patient in our daily life.

[dillman]

famous story about a famous zen sword master who was fleeing a flood with rest of the vilage. the master running ahead of the crowd saw that the bridge was washed out and that the villagers would fall into the river and drown. he turns pulls out his sword and cuts down the first villager. the vilagers turn and run in fear and he saves the villagers lives. his apprentice turns to him and says "the buddha teaches that we should not kill" the master says "it would not have been compassionate not to kill". this is the true meaining of wude.

[Lokhopkuen]

I know I am going to cop grief and "S#@t" for this but here goes:

Is there such a thing as "Wude" here?

Gene?

I enjoyed reading this thread
thank you all.

[瓜娃子]

Wude means that when someone leaves your clan, you kill them.

It means that when someone sees you practicing taiji, you murder them.

[SPJ]

1 you do not reveal your fighting methods or training

publicly

to a stranger

wu de number 1

2 you do not use your teacher's name or style in vain

wu de number 2

---

[donjitsu2]

I know I am going to cop grief and "S#@t" for this but here goes:

Is there such a thing as "Wude" here?

Gene?

Wu De

Shameless self promotion...does that demonstrate "Wu De"?




Train Hard,

Josh Skinner

[SimonM]

However, wolf and sheep both are incapable of abstract thought.

Are you sure? Wolves employ strategy when hunting deer, establishing traps and manipulating herding strategies.

Do you really know what thoughts wolves have?