FALUN GONG/Falun Dafa

[Anarcho]

"Orginex, I agree with you about the outright suppression of thoughts and ideas in China. I am very much a supporter of free speech and all the liberties we enjoy in the good ole US of A."

To start off with, I don't want anyone to get the idea that I'm supporting the Chinese government (or any government for that matter). You do have to remember, however, that much of the information you're getting from the corporate media in the good ole US of A is propaganda, just as it is here in Australia, or anywhere else you care to mention. It strikes me as funny that so many of the same people who knock others for not being more critical of Chinese reports are so completely uncritical of their own media. If you've ever spoken to journalists who work for large media corporations, you'll know that they're the first to admit to "editorial" pressure to keep in synch with what amounts to the party line.

My personal opinion is that Western governments spend most of their time killing citizens of other countries, while dictatorships tend to work on a domestic basis as well. Then again, that's my personal opinion. I think you have to take absolutely everything you hear or read with a grain of salt. Look at where it's coming from, look at why they want you to believe it...Criticism begins at home. For any of you who are interested, Noam Chomsky has written a number of excellent books about how the government and media in the US and other Western countries lie to their citizens. The good thing is, he usually provides independently verifiable evidence, too. ;)

Anyway...

[origenx]

anarcho - but that's sorta my point. Both gov's are sorta using FG as a political tool - it's not so much about FG itself. The Chinese gov could really care less what FG is about - they just see it as a threat for instability and insurrection. Just lots of frightened weak old men. The Chinese Communist gov wants to make an example out of FG to suppress other spiritual movements (see Tibet). I think the US is thus fairly concerned about the Chinese persecution aginst FG, but of course it also conveniently fits into their own anti-Communist agenda as well. Which I would have to agree with b/c Communism is a proven failure. Any system built upon human's ideal nature is bound to fail. You have to build it assuming the "worst" in human nature (selfishness, greed, etc.), but then channel those "negative" tendencies in a positive manner. (I.e. - get REAL folks!)

Bottom line is, everyone should just stick to the facts and evaluate FG on its own merits, instead of kicking it around like a political football. All I hear is lots of hearsay and propaganda still. But I guess that's the point - to cloud the issue by overloading people with misinformation and disinformation until they just get hopelessly confused.

[This message was edited by origenx on 03-06-01 at 10:50 AM.]

[GLW]

First off, good post on the idea to be doubtful of all media. The first thing I always ask is why is this person telling me this and where are they coming from...regardless of if the story is from China or from the west.

As for why China chose to crack down on Falun Gong...really simple, the organization began to attract thousands of followers, then it began to target low level party members and local officials for enticing into the Falun Gong group.

The thousands of followers is scary enough for the PRC government to take notice. Especially since it got its start in the recent history since Tienanmen Square...but now add the idea of targetting people for inclusion or conversion into the group....and you have a major problem in the eyes of a controlling regime like that of the PRC....

If I am the government, abuse of power is my right...if you do it, you are being insurgent ...but it is no different in other countries....

However, the real story is in the Falun Gong book...I actually bought it and have read parts of it just so I would know what the guy was saying. He is certifiable....and I mean a space cadet.

[Anarcho]

Cheers, OrigenX, I see your point. Just one aside, though, I don't think Marxism is based on considering humans to be naturally good, more on considering them to be changeable depending on their environment. And I definitely agree with you, state run communism couldn't work...You can't force people to do anything without causing more problems than you're solving. I also don't think that state run democracy works, but there you go. :)

Anyway, this is a thread for another board, so I'll shut up now.
:)

[o]

I brought up this old string to complement the new string on falun gong.

[PlasticSquirrel]

it seems to me that some people would classify this as mystical qigong. however, i don't believe that it ever claimed to be qigong. instead, it is a way of cultivation that includes exercises similar to those of qigong, but with a different purpose. when you have a falun, instead of a dan cluster, then the principles of what you are doing are totally different.

for instance, once you have a falun, practicing something that uses a dan could not work well. this is because the way they absorb and issue energy is different, and because a falun transforms the energy.

as i was saying, before i let myself get off the topic, is that it is a way to cultivation, similar to buddhism or daoism. a big difference, however, is that since people can cultivate quickly, and because the enlightenment is gradual, their third eye and supernormal powers develop gradually through practice. you can imagine how a man like li hongzhi, with his third eye and supernormal powers being how they are, could have gained so much knowledge. such an enlightened, or even somewhat enlightened person would seem odd or bizarre in a world like our's. his observations and knowledge wouldn't simply conform itself to what we know now. would the existance of aliens confuse and dumbfound an enlightened person? of course not. he would be able to see exactly what is happening. if he tries to tell the rest of us, this, however, will we believe him? we'll say "how do you know that?" when it should be quite clear to us how he does.

if you really read his books without attaching yourselves to anything else, it does make sense, what he says. the multi-dimensional aspects are clear and sensible, as are the rest of his teachings.

the big thing, though, is that we have to stop looking at it as mystical qigong. qi is a very small part of the practice, and is there only to open parts of the body, and to be transformed into gong (shen) by the falun.

p.s. if li hongzhi wanted to go against the chinese government with millions of practitioners in china, he wouldn't be able to. the reason is because they are non-violent. in fact, the main principles of the system are truthfulness, benevolence, and forbearance.

[denali]

From what I have heard.. Falun Gong is a group that is using chi kung for what it was never meant for--politics. Very often you see them 'meditating' in public, drawing attention to themselves and trying to make a statement, which I think contrasts with the idea of chi kung or meditation.

If a person wants to do chi kung, why draw attention to it? What does it matter? Why meditate downtown with all your friends and a big bright ribbon around your shoulder? (i saw this in the paper the other day)

I personally think that a falun gong member will only receive minimal health benefits from the postures they do, but will find a huge difference in attitude as well as better results when studying under a true chi kung master.

I would rather learn closer to the source ..

[magicfist]

"If a person wants to do chi kung, why draw attention to it? What does it matter? Why meditate downtown with all your friends and a big bright ribbon around your shoulder?"

Here's a story: I'm a college kid who does falun gong. If I lived in China and someone found out that I did falun gong, I would immediatly be kicked out of college. I would be arrested. I would be tortured. If I did not sign a paper declaring that falun gong was "evil" then I could also be sent to prison.
Some people have gotten sentences up to 10 years for practicing falun gong, while others have been tortured to death. We gather outside and practice to let people know that what China is doing is wrong and they should stop. Plain and simple that's all it is.

[Kung Lek]

magicfist-

there is an old saying- it says:

"society prepares the crime and the criminal commits it"

if you don't want to be found out, then don't practice what is considered criminal activity in public.

many people in the americas smoke marajuana, they do it in the privacy of their homes. Does this mean pot is good?
no it does not, it means that people will do what they like doing and try not to draw attention to themselves in the doing of it should it be a taboo thing to do in their given society.

If what you say is true, then it is YOU who must learn to work and live ithin the framework that you exist.

If you wish to influence change, then the last way that is done effectively is with an "in your face" attitude.

peace

Kung Lek

[Rory]

I didnt know if some people new this but one of the major reasons why the comunists threw him out and banned it is becauses he used to be a general for the military and he has quite a few military people loyal to him so it scared the communists and they threw him out. I personally dont like fg i read about 1 1/2 books i read china falun gong and a little bit of zhan falun gong its rather unorthudox (sorry for the spelling) but still theres no reason for any one to accuse them of anything unless they know from first hand expirience. :)

[[Censored]]

I was watching the news in Beijing last week. There was a report on a group of FG practicioners who kidnapped a non-believer and beat her to death, because she condemned Li. The story reported that they had Li's implicit approval; they were "excising devils".

I do not know whether the story is partially or completely true, but I have to wonder whether Li is really the "harmless nut" portrayed in US media.

[PlasticSquirrel]

i'm a little late with this thread, but here goes:

falun dafa practitioners are peaceful, like buddhists. they would never do anything like that. besides that, li hongzhi is in america, and isn't in enough contact with his chinese students to issue an order like that. even if he was, no one would do it, because they're peaceful, and don't exorcise demons in the first place.

it's not their place to do that, and they believe that they shouldn't interfere with those sort of things, although a high-level practitioner may ward away demons with his presence alone, and wouldn't resort to beating it out of someone (something that is ridiculously impossible, by the way).

falun dafa may be centered around one high-level teacher, but it is certainly not a network, an organization, or a cult. people can do as they wish, and no practitioner would resort to violence just because someone has a demon in them. li hongzhi says that people would be shocked if they saw how many people have demons, but he doesn't pay much attention to them.

[jun_erh]

i don't usually read rolling stone but their new issue with the "9-11-01" on the cover has a great article where a journalist from the NY Times interviews young would be terrorists/Bin Laden supporters. The one thing that struck me is that NOTHING HE SAID COULD CHANGE THEIR OPINION. This "faith" is usually reserved for supernatural/deified individuals (Jesus, allah) They would make a point, he would counter it and they would just say "no!!" That's insane. I consider Falun Gong to be a bunch of weirdos. People I would once have not considered a threat at all. Mao used comic books to get to people's conscoiusness, In the early 80's, we saw absurd Rambo knockoffs as right wing propaganda...
One word I saw in college often was "loaded". that is, the use of a word being used or meaning a lot of things, possibly. The right wing support of Paula Jones was "loaded" in that it was aimed to take down Clinton, not stop seual harrasment, or at least not firstly. So now someone is taking Tai Chi and putting an ideology on it? What if someone did that with Ju-Jitsu? Egads! :eek:

[PlasticSquirrel]

falun dafa is no more a cult than daoism. the people aren't kept track of. they come and go from the practice sites as they wish. if people just want to practice it for health, they can do that. instruction is free, as are the books and videos on the internet. nothing is kept in the shadows, and li hongzhi is only a teacher of falun dafa.

people that practice falun dafa don't care about politics, and are not violent radicals. they feel that they have no right to tell anyone how to live their lives, and if they kill, they will probably never succeed in cultivation. in falun dafa there is no excuse for killing, and no one will give you mercy in heaven. if they are nuts, then they are at least nuts who won't hurt anyone else or start any revolutions. those are the good type of nuts, i think.

it also has nothing to do with taiji. qigong has always been seperate from taiji, and the things that li hongzhi was taught are completely seperate from taiji, with no overlap.

as for the thing about chairman mao, you might do well to learn from history (china's paranoia, tianmen square), and rather about things not from the news or from chinese government propaganda and hearsay, but from the source.

really, people. the whole "falun gong is a cult and li hongzhi is evil" thing is totally without basis. it's all propaganda. look through his books online. i'm sure you will either come out with one of two opinions:

1. li hongzhi is nuts, and everyone who practices falun dafa is nuts

2. li hongzhi is brilliant, and falun dafa is the greatest thing ever

whichever one of these you think, it will at least be your own opinion, and not propaganda or lies.

[jun_erh]

You're probably right. In retrospect, I have no idea what I'm talking about. I'm serious ;)