White Crane Boxing .... Internal?

[Minghequan]

Hello all,

I've been a member for a little while and although I don't post too often I am a fan of the forum and its approach to discussing the arts.

I'm a practitioner, researcher and seeker of the martial way which involves White Crane Boxing (in particular 鳴鶴拳 Minghequan or Calling Crane with elements of Feeding Crane Fist 食鶴拳 and Shaking Crane Fist 宿鶴拳).

For me, my involvement has lead me to believe (and practice) that White Crane Boxing is essentially an Internal art even though it does not seem to be listed as such with regards to the big three (Taiji, Bagua, Hsing-I).

What are other fellow members thoughts on this? Is White Crane Boxing to be considered and internal art it is own right? Or is it simply a matter of one's own personal approach?

[TenTigers]

I don't believe in "Internal" and "external" I feel that all arts are both if practiced correctly. Relaxation, proper alignment, power issueing from the dan-tien,correct breathwork, etc. What is not internal? Hard, stiff movements, depending on brute strength, not connected using whole body power? That's not simply external, it's crappy training.
"Internal," is just a label that Martial Snobs throw around to differentiate themselves form others. The ego is internal....

[Hendrik]

Internal has a wide range of definition for TCMA.

In today's language, Internal training basically means "implicit"
External training means " explicit."


Thus, one cannot see or have difficultice to notice what is Within, inward, implicit.
and one can see or more easily notice what is outside,outward, explicit.


So, Internal needs more specific definition to describe the system.


White Crane has lots of training which is "implicit" however are they train via stress or loosing up? how deep is that goes? starting from skin inward to breathing? to internal organs? to Zhen Qi? To shen?

Those are the elements needs to know to address the issue so that what one discuss is in the same class.


The level of this forum, I hope, will raise to that details because that is the sign of progress.

[Dragonzbane76]

I don't believe in "Internal" and "external" I feel that all arts are both if practiced correctly. Relaxation, proper alignment, power issueing from the dan-tien,correct breathwork, etc. What is not internal? Hard, stiff movements, depending on brute strength, not connected using whole body power? That's not simply external, it's crappy training.
"Internal," is just a label that Martial Snobs throw around to differentiate themselves form others. The ego in internal....
__________________

have to agree with this post. "internal" is just a term thrown around. Many preach it but in the end it comes down to how you train. any movement can be interpreted many different ways. for someone to say "well that's an internal movement" is like saying that vertical punch is an internal movement. no it's not it's just a vertical punch. how it's delivered is up to the practitioner.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I don't believe in "Internal" and "external" I feel that all arts are both if practiced correctly. Relaxation, proper alignment, power issueing from the dan-tien,correct breathwork, etc. What is not internal? Hard, stiff movements, depending on brute strength, not connected using whole body power? That's not simply external, it's crappy training.
"Internal," is just a label that Martial Snobs throw around to differentiate themselves form others. The ego in internal....

What he said.

[Hendrik]

I don't believe in "Internal" and "external" I feel that all arts are both if practiced correctly. Relaxation, proper alignment, power issueing from the dan-tien,correct breathwork, etc. What is not internal? Hard, stiff movements, depending on brute strength, not connected using whole body power? That's not simply external, it's crappy training.
"Internal," is just a label that Martial Snobs throw around to differentiate themselves form others. The ego is internal....

That is too general and "sloppy"

IE: power issueing from the Dan -Tien itself doesnt mean a thing. This can be totally external hard stuffs which is totally different from internal.

[TenTigers]

Internal has a wide range of definition for TCMA.

In today's language, Internal training basically means "implicit"
External training means " explicit."


Thus, one cannot see or have difficultice to notice what is Within, inward, implicit.
and one can see or more easily notice what is outside,outward, explicit.


So, Internal needs more specific definition to describe the system.


White Crane has lots of training which is "implicit" however are they train via stress or loosing up? how deep is that goes? starting from skin inward to breathing? to internal organs? to Zhen Qi? To shen?

Those are the elements needs to know to address the issue so that what one discuss is in the same class.


The level of this forum, I hope, will raise to that details because that is the sign of progress.

not for nothing Hendrick, but this too is in your own words,"sloppy."
You contstantly bring these terms and topics up, but you have never gone into any detail yourself.
So, perhaps you can also raise your level on this forum as well.

I believe we all would be interested to hear what you have to share on, "loosing up from the skin, inward to breathing, to internal organs, to Zhen Qi, to Shen."
It sounds like you have alot to offer this thread.

[Hendrik]

not for nothing Hendrick, but this too is in your own words,"sloppy."
You contstantly bring these terms and topics up, but you have never gone into any detail yourself.
So, perhaps you can also raise your level on this forum as well.

I believe we all would be interested to hear what you have to share on, "loosing up from the skin, inward to breathing, to internal organs, to Zhen Qi, to Shen."
It sounds like you have alot to offer this thread.

I pray for you to see what is a technical critics and not getting into ego reaction.

As for
"loosing up from the skin, inward to breathing, to internal organs, to Zhen Qi, to Shen."

Any real practicioner knows what it is, and that is not limited to myself here. Ask them what I mean.

[TenTigers]

Any real practicioner knows what it is, and that is not limited to myself here. Ask them what I mean.

(sigh...) That's what I was afraid was going to happen.....
are you sure you're not really HW108 in disguise?

[Hendrik]

(sigh...) That's what I was afraid was going to happen.....
are you sure you're not really HW108 in disguise?

ask properly and I am sure lots of high hands here will share?

[taai gihk yahn]

Any real practicioner knows what it is, and that is not limited to myself here. Ask them what I mean.

You critique Ten Tigers, and instead of getting defensive, he actually drops his ego and attempts to engage in a productive discussion by asking a sincere question; instead, you pretty much characterize it as an ego-reaction, and then employ your typical evasiveness when asked a direct question;

you seem to have not learned that when one critiques someone and then ducks a follow-up, one comes across as a bit of a jerk, and thereby impedes the desire of others to engage in meaningful interaction; and that is not an ego-based comment, that is a technical critique - I hope that you are able to understand it without your ego flaring up;

as for Rik's "question", you do understand that he is not asking you to explain it to him because he is ignorant - he is asking for your particular take on it, given that you brought it up, in the hopes of generating a dialogue; when you assume that he is ignorant, that demonstrates a particular bias on your part, which we have all seen here before; and which is truly unfortunate, because Rik is actually one of the few "high hands" on here, and you might do well to give what he writes a bit more consideration before dismissing it out of hand

[Lee Chiang Po]

(sigh...) That's what I was afraid was going to happen.....
are you sure you're not really HW108 in disguise?

I am having trouble containing myself here. Dude, I know you really did expect this. I have asked him I don't know how many times to explain what he was talking about, only to be told to ask a qualified teacher or some such. I think Hendrik reads a lot and watches too much utube. I don't think he really knows one way or another, but likes to repeat what he sees on utube or what he reads. He never makes sense, and I really do attempt to understand him. I am not talking about his use of the English, but that he talks in riddles and tries to sound like some Chinese philosipher. sp? If he would break down just once and go into a dialog of explanation using common terms rather than mumbo jumbo I would love to hear what he is talking about.

LCP

[Violent Designs]

I have been harsh toward Hendrik in the past, but I am really interested to hear what he has to say.

Detail wise, at least. I am all ears at this point, no judging or ego from me.

I am at crossroads in life and everything so, and basically just trying to absorb as much information as possible.

So Hendrik please explain in detail.

[Hendrik]

To have a serious discussion,
I would like to ask those So called High Hand to describe

How deep will their training be able to penetrate into the body? internal organs, to the Qi medirians, to the Shen ?

Since everyone seems to be a master, then I presume you all be able to answer the above questions in details and specific according your kung fu attainment level instead of guessing or some logical mind speculation.

Otherwise, what to discuss?

I refer the above posts as Generalized and "sloppy" because anyone who have started the true internal training will have to be able to answer the above. so, I expect the real deal description here in details and not generalization and sloppy.

IE: everyone said sink Qi to Dan Dien, how is that? in details, for there at least a few type of so called Sink Qi to Dan Dien, and some of them are even missed practice.

[Violent Designs]

I am definitely not a master. Just a beginner.