opening your kwa

[eulerfan]

I was practicing tai chi with a friend. He was insistant that I always(almost always) turn my back foot 45 degrees from the direction I'm moving before I move forward.

My response was that at 45 degrees, it's near to impossible for me to open my kwa. At 90 degrees, it's at least possilble. It's even easier if they are at a steeper angle but that compromises my balance.

He said that opening your kwa was something that should happen internally, not something you should try to accomplish by splaying your knees.

I think that it is something that you do internally but I can't do it internally with my knees pointed at forty five degrees.

So, what do ya'll think?

Am I doing something wrong? Am I misunderstanding what opening your kwa actually entails?

[GLW]

If you are talking Gong Bu stance (front stance) having the front foot forward and the rear foot 90 degrees off of that is too far.

30 to 60 degrees depending on you hips, and legs and such is sufficient.

If you do an analysis of the force...Gong bu is a forward forcing stance...used in applying forward forces. When you shift the rear foot MORE than 90 degrees, you split your force vectors with one going back - your rear foot, and the other forward.

At 90 degrees, this happens to a lesser degree but the real effect is that the rear leg is not in the force vector equation much at all...it cancels out. At a 45 degree it adds in.

Also, twisting out too much like that can stress a knee in an unnecessary way. It does not fit with a natural step - even though through long enough practice you can make anything FEEL natural.

I would tend to agree with your friend.

[eulerfan]

Ah, are we assuming tai chi is a spherical horse in a void? ;)

I see your point.

I might not even really be ready for the whole 'opening your kwa' thing. I am fairly new to this. It was a new idea and I got excited.

[Water Dragon]

Well, what do you think opening your kua is, and what does it do for you? I can think of at least two schools of thought on the subject and they both work. Myself, I'm a huge fan of sealing the kua as a "power position", kinda like the C back in the breathing thread.

Start with describing what you're doing and why. Otherwise, someone will say one thing, you'll be thinking something else, and all of a sudden you'll be even more confused.

[Chang Style Novice]

Kwa? I don't know what that is.

[Water Dragon]

Hip joint. Where the hip meets the thigh.

[Chang Style Novice]

Ah, the stiffest part of my feeble old body! Thanks.

[Shadow Dragon]

Also, pls, tell us what style you and your friend are doing.

Stances and foot positioning do vary between them.

Kwa (http://www.tai-chi-chuan.demon.co.uk/kwa.html)

Isn't the hip-joint called "Kua" or am I getting mixed up with the dialects again?

Cheers.

[Shadow Dragon]

Originally posted by Chang Style Novice
Ah, the stiffest part of my feeble old body! Thanks.

Stop whining. Some of us are older than you.

Seeya.

[Chang Style Novice]

Sure...but are you as stiff? I really regret not taking up ma about 20 years earlier than I did. I was 30 years old, and that was only a couple years back!

[Shadow Dragon]

CSN.

Pretty stiff.
Spending too much time at the office Desk. :(

Plus, a few injuries from my younger days keep my life interesting and sometimes painful.
Going once a month for a full-body massage to help me stay relaxed and reasonably flexible really helps.

Eitehr going for 1 of 3 types:
Pressure point
Shiatsu (Not for everybody)
Chi massage.

Give it a try, helped me a lot.

Cheers.

[Chang Style Novice]

Couldn't hurt. My sifu knows a lot of massage stuff (he's licensed by the state and knows his pressure points) so he's probably my best bet. Thanks for the advice.

Mind if I ask how old you are?

And um...what are you wearing? (JOKE!)

[Shadow Dragon]

Originally posted by Chang Style Novice
Mind if I ask how old you are?


35, but only started in TJQ a few years ago due to injuries preventing me doing the harder styles.



And um...what are you wearing? (JOKE!)

Hmm, standard everyday clothing.
I guess.

Seeya.

[eulerfan]

Okay, we do Yang family short form. 24 postures.

When I open my kwa, I roll the tops of my thighs outward and my tailbone tucks under slightly.

Now, I have about three years of yoga practice under my belt. So, a lot of body positions that feel unnatural to the majority of the populace, feel just dandy to me. This makes me a bit unwilling to really trust that 'natural feel'.

However, when I do this thing that I call 'opening my kwa', I notice one huge difference whenever doing a move where your feet remain planted but your torso moves back and then forward again.

If my kwa is closed, I feel like I'm hitting a wall, I suddenly can't move backwards anymore and that's when I move forward. My torso moves straight back,stops, then straight forward.

If my kwa is open, it flows. Moving back suddenly becomes sinking slightly which then becomes moving forward. It feels like more of a roll. Like my torse is making an almost imperceptable u-turn.

That's the best I can do by way of explanation. I hope it is somewhat clear.

[GLW]

Giving a basis of 24 Posture.... and it works a bit differently in traditional Yang..

Say you start from the beginning...move from beginning posture, through hold ball, out to part horse's mane...left hand forward...

There is then a rock back of the front (left foot). Then you pivot and move forward. this is where people make a mistake. It is NOT pivot, then move. The actual move is to push from the back foot turning the waist to align the waist with the front foot as you pivot such that your front foot opens 30 to 60 degrees out.

When you finish this part, you should have the left foot in an angled out position, the waist is aligned with the left foot and knee - by that I mean the hips are almost squared with the angled direction, and the back foot - the right one will be up on the toe...heel off the floor. The weight is mainly on the front (left foot).

You are now prepared to bring the right foot forward...you are also in the process to moving to holding ball. Optional you can step forward with the right foot to Ding Bu - both knees point to the angled position from before...the waist is still squared...and you are holding ball.

Now, you rotate the right knee open to the right and this sort of begins from the waist...as it opens to the right....and you turn to step out to right leg in front Gong bu (front stance). The front foot ends up forward and the back foot does NOT move from how you placed it when you did the original pivot.

The entire process is hallmarked by aligning the hips with the knee and foot and then placing the foot only one time...you don't want to be doing adjustments with every piece.

Traditional Yang style does similar except you do not to Ding Bu in the middle and you do not do the rock back. However, in both, the shifting and pivoting of the foot aligns with squared hips and is driven from the back foot pivoting in a natural step.

At no time do you end up with a 90 degree foot placement or a strained knee...and you also do not pursue an unnatural opening of the kwa.... it takes care of itself if you follow the body mechanics.

[Water Dragon]

I think we are doing different things, so what I'm going to say may not apply to what your doing.

Take a bow stance with the left leg forward. Now turn your torso as far tot he left as possible (try to look behind you) Notice how your hip joint "seals". If you look at it, you'll see a line/crease in your pants. So, if you take the left bow and turn your torso all the way to the right, your kuas is open. My bow stance is always front kua closed, back kua opened. To get this, you have to learn how to use your spine as the pivot. If you get it, all the lower body requirements just "fall into place" The feeling is that both feet are digging into the ground at the same time.

Why is it a power position? Well, the front kua closing rotates the entire torso so you get your body weight itno every move. The back kua being opened "pushes" the back foot into the ground. You get a kinda dynamic tension between the two legs. The power comes from closing the front kua and not issuing once the kua is already closed --> it's a dynamic rather than static thing.

It gets weirder, I'm working out of the San Ti now which is BOTH kuas closed. This creates some type of a dropping-pulling power, but I don't understand that one yet. It's a hell of a shape to get though.

** The other school of thought that I know about puts the emphasis on keeping the kua in a half closed position and "pumping" the power through it while dropping the back and butt. I think this is closer to the Chen Taiji methodology byt could be wrong.

[Nexus]

The kua is associated with the ingrinal grooves of the hip. It can be opened through a variety of means. Some preferable ones are squats (without weights), or leg stretches in very low postures.

[Walter Joyce]

Nexus,
err you mean inguinal?

[Nexus]

irregardless of how you spell it, thats what I meant. ;)

[Sam Wiley]

I think some of you are over-analyzing. I was told to sit the kwa, like a tiger about to pounce. Do it with that mindset and everything falls into place.

Turning the foot shouldn't matter that much. Do what you are comfortable with. If you can eventually get your back foot around to 45 degrees then okay, but don't place too much emphasis on it in my opinion. Different styles do things different ways, and even within the collective "Yang" style there are significant variations.

[looking_up]

I just wanted to share a kwa-opening experience I just had...ha ha ha....*groan*...

To sum up, I was sticking my butt out a bit because I felt like
I was over-tucking the tailbone. Bad idea - it totally screwed up
my ability to transfer weight smoothly from leg to leg. One
shouldn't overtuck, but sticking the butt out is definitely taboo.
And yes, the classics allude to this aspect, how silly of me to
diverge from ancient wisdom. Basically, a bit of tucking will help
you to have the arch-shaped kwa that allows weight to smoothly
shift from leg to leg in a nice arc - like heavy liquid shifting back
and forth. The center of gravity is on the line connecting to
two feet. This is all basic stuff, and I'm just sharing it so that
maybe someone will realize his/her butt-protruding ways and
save him/herself the frustration I've been dealing with for about
a month now. It feels good, but it's definitely not "natural" in
the sense of how people normally hold themselves in this
butt-loving world we live in.